#6: Giving In to Not Knowing with Kelly Ziemer

Or rather, knowing the "what" but not the "how." OoooOooo it's juicy!! 🍋

Hello!!! We are back and so so lucky to have spoken with the wonderful Kelly Ziemer for this episode.

As you’ll hear, Kelly’s ability to sink into “the vulnsies” (a term she uses to describe being in a vulnerable state) and share her story from that place of open-heartedness, grounded courage, and bright humor is a true gift.

We spoke to Kelly about her work as a researcher, writer, and therapist, including what she learned through her PhD dissertation on self-love, in which she and her research team analyzed nearly 200,000 posts on #self-love on Twitter and Instagram (how fricken cool). She joined our conversation from Amsterdam, where she is an assistant professor at Leiden University and conducts research at the University of Amsterdam.

Kelly’s desire pointed her toward moving to Amsterdam just after she started her PhD program at the University of California, Berkeley. Her deep and practiced attunement with her inner compass is at the heart of how she began to align her life and work with that desire—and giving voice to the desire itself, even and especially when she didn’t have a map, directed her towards it. In fact, she had a pretty big commitment—years left in her PhD program in California—to somehow work into this dream.

Some fun photos while listening! An image Kelly took of the Amsterdam canals the day her intuition told her that's where she needed to be: July 2018, Bentley age 10 (RIP sweet guy ❤️) on the plane with Kelly on their way to Amsterdam: December 2018, a close up because we need his face, a pic from kellyziemer.com HIGHLY recommend checking out her work, Kelly with her dad when she was 5 (a time period we speak about in the ep), and dad and daughter now-ish :)

We talk about the beautiful web of helping hands that came to collaborate in ways she couldn’t have possibly predicted, the relationship and dance between “efforting” and “recalibrating,” her own definition of exposure therapy (which kinda blew our minds), and the inflection points in her life when she woke up and asked herself some really confronting and ultimately loving questions that invited her to grow and expand.

Like: how do we take responsibility for ourselves? Discern clearly what we are saying “yes” and “no” to, and why? See the areas where we betray ourselves, numb out, go on auto-pilot? What happens when we know what we want, but don’t know the steps to get there? How do we listen well when our intuition nudges softly, and our anxiety throws tantrums? What is the difference between self-esteem and self-love? How can emotions like envy and jealousy (some of Kelly’s faves for their clarifying power) illuminate our desires?

This episode is for everyone working on giving in to the desire of what they want and honoring the truth and aliveness of their desires without knowing how all of the steps are going to materialize <3.

Here come the discussion links!

• We talk about Brené Brown’s Braving the Wilderness, and I also have to shout out Atlas of the Heart, which I just listened to via Libby on a road trip, and wheeeeewwwwww, three cheers for emotional literacy and brave, open hearts!

• Kelly references Emily Brontë’s Wuthering Heights whilst fantasizing about a gorgeous breakfast in the English countryside. Yum.

• We talk about The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer and his chapter about the roommate in our heads.

• Highly recommend Kelly’s website for insightful research articles and terrific resources on “the emotions that drive us, that hold us back, and that set us free.”

Leaving you with a hand on the heart, a hand on the belly, deep breaths, and lots of love!

xo,

Patty + Erin